PrimerMovie.com

Whysguy · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 15

Warning: Highly Speculative!

Given Rachelle's Dad's condition when Aaron and Abe find him. Could it be possible that his vegitative state was caused by excessive trips through the machine?

This would give rise to the possibility that Thomas Granger is the original inventor and Aaron and Abe were chosen to save his daughter from an unjust fate.

Nahh!

lostatlimbo · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 53

REAVER · Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 43

I think it is likely that his state is due to overuse of the machine, either a long jump, or many jumps. Remember time travel is just a side-effect of the box, it was intended to reduce the apparent mass of objects inside, who knows what kind of affect that would have on the human body over long periods of time, not to mention it is an exotic gas environment, where the occupants are put into an induced coma.

goodcookiegirl · Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 12

What makes everyone think that this Granger discovered the box? How did this happen? Sure, he's lying there but where did that deduction come from?

khu · Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 78

This is stated in the movie, how come you missed it? Aaron's looking at Granger from the car, and SAYS that Granger has several days of beard when he's looking at him, yet Granger was clean-shaven earlier in the day. Granger is also following them at 2am for no reason they know of.

Clearly, you cannot get days of facial hair in a few hours, so they deduced from the beard and the fact that Granger is somehow interested in them that Granger somehow found out about their invention the future and came back in a box, as a future-double, and that's who they're looking at.

twistedlogic · Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 31

and Abe calls a Granger double at home.

Rob Y · Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 738

The gist seems to be that one of Abe or Aaron's timesteps created an emergency where they had to involve Granger... but then they went back and fixed it so they didn't need to involve him. But there was still that Granger double who climed out of a box *somewhere* (we don't know where) and was in deep do-do because the events that led to his being there had been erased.

But since those events had been erased by some future version of Abe or Aaron, the Abe and Aaron we saw never knew how Granger got there.

nohj · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 28 Location: here

I have a semi theory about Granger. He could have been there outside of Aaron's house at 2am because of the impending events Abe and Aaron have just been plotting on.

For one thing, Abe's plan appears to have a serious flaw: He wants to 1). go over to Platt's place so Aaron can punch him out, then 2). Get in the boxes and go back to 5pm and 3). Stop himself from waking up just before 2am.

The punchout and the trip back will not have occured, their past doubles will get into the boxes the next day as usual.

The problem is, this will leave the current set of Aaron and Abe stranded as superfluous doubles.

The original set will indeed get into the boxes the next day, but presumably they will stop by at 8am to turn the machines off and on again.

They have to do this because of the way the boxes are used: You have to turn them off before you get into them, and wait for the power to wind down sufficiently so that it's safe to get inside, but before they stop altogether.

Likewise you have to get out during the short period just after they've powered on, before they wind up sufficiently so that it's not safe to get out of them.

For example, during Aaron's 'first' trip back with Abe, Abe tells him he got out "too soon." Of course since he was travelling backwards in time, 'too soon' inside the box translates to 'too late' outside the box... the box had wound up too high and Aaron got a nasty shock on his exit.

This matters because it makes the prospective trip the following day a different instance from the one the night before. A third set of doubles will emerge from the boxes at 8am, and will become the originals when the those two enter the boxes before 5pm.

The second set, that emerged at 5pm the previous evening, will be stranded as superfluous extras because their previous instances didn't wake up to get into the boxes and become them.

I think Abe actually missed this. He must have been sleepy. I don't think he was planning to become a superfluous, legally inexplicable copy of himself so soon in life.

It's also possible he was theorizing that as a second copy of himself he would poof out of existence like the punch out scene itself that never happened when his original failed to wake up and get in the box. He had no experience of the creation of superfluous copies of himself up to that point. This proposed adventure may indeed have been in part an experiment, as Abe said it was, to find out what exactly would happen in an instance where the original does not get into the box to create his double.

Although if he had poofed out of existence, I don't know what good the experiment would have done anybody: The only people who would have known the experiment had been done would have poofed out of existence.

Anyway, at BEST Aaron and Abe would have stranded themselves as legally inexplicable doubles of themselves. This could have led to all kinds of complications, any of which could have ended up in some kind of emergency necessitating the inclusion of Granger in their schemes.

But there is also the possibility that the punch out scene itself might go awry. For example, what if Platt, having just received an unsolicited punch in the nose, did something crazy like retaliate? What if he whipped out a gun and shot Aaron or Abe down dead even? This would certainly count as some kind of emergency, and it makes sense that Granger #2 might be hanging around outside Aaron's house at 2am if he was hoping to forestall just this adventure. Which he did actually.

Although, in the end I still have no idea why Granger would be passing out whenever he gets near Abe. That's another reason why this is a semi theory. The only guess I can make about that is, Granger might have been using the machines with insuffient knowledge of how they were supposed to be used, got in or out of them at the wrong time, and sustained some kind of brain damage. It still doesn't make sense that he'd just pass out whenever Abe was around though.

Although the best guess probably is simply that none of this was even plotted out to begin with, Granger was simply thrown in for reasons unknown and unknowable, there was no reason to provide or even invent any reason for it.

JonSanden · Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 10 Location: NYC

The thing that really confuses me about Granger is in a line that Aaron says at the storage facility after their altercation in the backyard...

Granger is left in a coma as result of an apparent paradox of being told about the machine, using it to go back, and then Abe going back to stop this from happening. (please correct me if i'm wrong)

but why does Aaron say "You're [Abe] the one he can't go near without passing out." ????

This implies a history with this issue of Abe's proximity to Granger causing his coma... Could somebody please explain this?

(Also, if possible, could someone explain the significance of the jump cuts that show Abe running into the back yard while they are still in the car? and also what happens in the back yard? It's very hard to see... Thomas Granger has clearly passed out for some reason but his head looks propped up on something...it's very odd. This section of the film is the most troubling for me-- perhaps in the same way as it is for the characters?)

Rob Y · Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 738

khu · Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 78

Rob Y · Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 738

dataspel · Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 35 Location: austin, tx