PrimerMovie.com

ray_sun · Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 3

I saw the movie twice and I think I've pieced it together. I still have a few questions...

Also published & updated here: http://raysun.blogspot.com/

Warning: This is an attempt to fully explain the movie Primer. If you haven't seen it, stop here. If you want to figure it out for yourself, stop here.

Also, I wrote this as a stream of consciousness after the second viewing of the movie, so I haven't vetted it for clarity. I probably made some assumptions about things that may not be 100% clear in everybody's mind. Let me know...

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Note: Abe2 will designate the Abe that has gone through the original failsafe machine. Aaron2 will designate the Aaron that has gone through the failsafe machine that he smuggled back through Abe’s failsafe machine & started immediately. If that doesn't make sense, don't worry; read on.

Abe, Aaron, Robert, and Philip are working on startup ideas in Aaron’s house. Aaron has a new fridge with a red bow around it. Did he buy this using future time machine earnings? No, because the machine hasn’t been invented yet and you can only jump back to when the machine was started. During this talk, Philip mentions someone named Platt; Aaron is upset when he hears this; it’s a reference to some VC or somebody that screwed them a year ago; keep this name in mind, though.

Abe and Aaron notice interesting gravity-reducing characteristics of their machine. They decide not to share this w/ Robert & Philip.

Aaron calls Abe one night to go to Aaron’s house to work. The call wakes Abe up in his bedroom, where he’s passed out & has a beard. He didn’t have a beard in any previous scene. Before Abe opens his bedroom door, he practices saying “Hi, Brad.” He opens the bedroom door, sees Brad his roommate and says “Hi, Brad.” Does he do this practicing because he’s really Abe2, the Abe that’s already gone through the failsafe machine & started everything over? Doesn’t seem right because again the machine hasn’t been invented yet.

Aaron says the machine is stable. Aaron and Abe mess with it and notice that it runs itself w/o batteries. They go to a steak dinner & discuss all the implications.

They go to parties to try to get VCs to fund them. At one party, they are shown talking to Thomas Granger, the father of Rachel, who is Abe’s girlfriend at the time. Somewhere in this time, Abe puts 2 time machines in one storage locker, and 1 failsafe machine in another. He turns on the failsafe. The failsafe is supposed to be a secret; Abe will use it to reset everything if something goes wrong.

(not shown in the movie) One morning, Abe sets a timer to turn on a time machine 15 minutes after he leaves the storage area. He then goes to a remote hotel & cuts off all communication w/ the outside world. In the early afternoon, he leaves the hotel, asks his broker which stock went up the most that day, then goes to the storage locker at 3 PM & enters the time machine. He travels a few hours back to the point when the machine went on (15 minutes after he left that morning).

Aaron2 is sitting on a bench with an earpiece in his ear. Abe looks at him from a rooftop, then goes down to talk to him. Abe thinks this is Aaron, not Aaron2. Abe tells him that he’s about to show him something extraordinary. In this scene, Aaron2’s speech seems strange because he’s just echoing what he hears in his ear, a recording he made before going through his failsafe machine. Aaron2 is trying to change the future as little as possible.

Abe drags Aaron2 along to the lab & whatever to discuss the protein growth. He demonstrates the watch traveling through time. Just before 3 PM, Abe takes Aaron2 to witness Abe going into the locker at 3 PM.

Rachel calls Abe in the car.

Abe and Aaron2 do this day-jumping a few times to earn money on mid-cap stocks that move during the day. They do their research in a different town’s library to avoid running into anyone they know & altering the future.

(not shown in the movie) Aaron goes to a basketball court & tells Will to bring his cousin (Rachel’s ex-bf) to Robert’s birthday party. Aaron has no ill intent other than mild mischief; he doesn’t know that Will’s cousin will threaten Rachel yet.

(not shown in the movie) Robert has a party and Rachel is threatened by Will’s cousin (an ex-boyfriend) with a shotgun. Aaron2 and Abe were not at the party. Rachel is not harmed, and Will’s cousin is not arrested.

Abe, Aaron2, and Kara (Aaron’s wife) are at Aaron’s house. Kara complains about rats; Aaron2 says don’t worry but really this is Aaron stuck in the attic. They are asking Kara what she would do with tons of money. Kara says “oh good things” but Aaron2 says “I’d go punch Platt in the face. But only if I could go back and make myself not do it, just so I could experience it.” Abe seems upset; he says “Aaron you can’t do that” because Abe is deathly worried about causality.

Abe knows that he has a failsafe machine, but he doesn’t know what happens if you travel back more than a few hours, so as an experiment he starts a machine at 5 PM instead of in the morning as usual. In the middle of the night, a kid runs down his street & sets off car alarms, including Abe’s Maxima. This wakes up Abe. Abe goes to Aaron2’s house & says, “now’s your chance to go punch Platt; we’ll go & do it, then come back & prevent the kid from setting off the alarms, so in reality it never happened, yet we experienced it.”

Aaron2 and Abe drive off to do it, but they notice that Thomas Granger is following them. Aaron2 says that he saw Thomas earlier in the day & he was clean-shaven, but now he has a 2-3 day beard. Abe is rattled so he calls his girlfriend Rachel to get Thomas’s number. He calls Thomas and Thomas is at home. That means Thomas2 is in the car behind them. Aaron2 chases Thomas2, and eventually Thomas2 falls into a coma (from misusing time travel & screwing himself up) and Aaron2 slips. Abe catches up with them and they take Thomas2 to a spare bedroom. The voiceover (Aaron2) says that this is when Abe decides to use his failsafe machine. Abe is worried that Thomas changed things that are unpredictable.

Abe takes the failsafe to start over.

Abe2 then oxygen-masks Abe in his sleep and puts him in the closet to take over Abe’s life (effectively).

We’re back at the scene where Abe2 meets Aaron2 on the bench. Funny: Aaron2 is saying what he said as Aaron, even though Abe2 is saying totally different things from Abe, so Aaron2’s conversation doesn’t make sense. Abe2 has just traveled a long way, though, so he passes out before having the same conversation with Aaron2 that he had before.

Abe2 goes to Aaron’s garage. Robert and Philip show up and say something that indicates to Abe2 that Aaron was at Robert’s party. But Abe2 knows that Aaron wasn’t at the party. So Abe2 figures out that even though he used the failsafe and everything should be back to normal, somehow Aaron interfered. The only way is if Aaron used a failsafe himself (he used Aaron’s failsafe).

They argue at the fountain while looking for a cat. As far as I know, this has no significance other than confusing the crap out of me at the first viewing.

Aaron2 and Abe2 discuss what to do about Rachel in the garage. Aaron2 explains that he wants to change what happened at the party because he wants to get the ex-boyfriend arrested so he can’t *potentially* harm Rachel in the future. Abe2 is hesitant to mess w/ the future, but in the end he agrees.

Aaron2 tells Abe2 about his earpiece strategy. Abe2 starts wearing one too.

Aaron2 goes to the basketball court & tells Will about Robert’s party, and tells him to bring his cousin (Rachel’s ex-bf). Aaron2 and Abe2 go to the party & take the bullets out of Rachel’s ex-bf’s gun. The ex-bf threatens Rachel but this time Aaron2 saves the day. The ex-bf is arrested as they planned.

But at this point we’re wondering what happened to Aaron.

Aaron2, on the voiceover, explains it. He found out that Abe had the failsafe by checking the storage records & noticing that Abe had 2 lockers. Aaron finds Abe’s failsafe & is upset. Aaron takes one of the time machines & puts it inside the failsafe, travels back in time, then Aaron2 immediately puts the smuggled time machine into his own secret location & turns it on. That provides Aaron2 a secret failsafe of his own to wipe the time slate clean (as a primer does for painting, as suggested by someone else on the primermovie.com site).

Aaron2 then drugs Aaron’s milk at night, which Aaron eats in the morning (daylight) and passes out, and Aaron2 puts Aaron in the attic. This lets Aaron2 take over Aaron’s life for a bit.

Here’s a part that I don’t understand. In the next scene, we see the Aaron2 drugging the milk scene again (at night), but this time you see an Aaron overpowering another Aaron at night. But then another Aaron enters the room & sees this, but he talks to the standing Aaron & agrees to leave, saying “see you” because the drugging was already done. There are 4 Aarons here; 1 Aaron is asleep waiting to have milk in the morning, another has been knocked out on the floor, another knocked him out, and another came through the door. I think Aaron2 was the last guy with the white shirt that walks out the door. I think Aaron found out that Aaron2 drugged him, so he went back to stop it? I dunno…

Aaron2 and Abe2 argue at the airport about where to go. They note that Abe and Aaron are about to get out of the closet/attic & start building their machines. Abe2 has been sabotaging the effort to stop any more Abe/Aarons. Aaron doesn’t want to do that; he just wants to leave. Aaron goes to another country & starts building his own machine.

The voiceover is Aaron2 talking to Aaron on the phone. I think Aaron2 is telling Aaron so he has an advantage over Abe2.

Ted · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 12

I disagree with portions of this.

ray_sun · Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 3

Ted, are you sure that you saw the "Abe, Robert, and Philip in the garage" scene *before* Abe used the failsafe? I believe it happened afterwards, and since the movie generally moved "forward" for Abe and Aaron, I took this to be Abe2.

I'm not 100% sure when Abe2 finds out that Aaron2 has interfered. But I thought the director/writer wanted us to see Abe2's amazement at what Robert & Philip say in the garage, which is something that indicates that Aaron2 went to the party & interfered w/ the shotgun event. And Abe2 would only be amazed if:

1) he hadn't been told by Aaron2 that Aaron2 went to the party and interfered, and
2) in Abe2's first run through as Abe, the party happened and Rachel was threatened, but Aaron didn't attempt to stop the ex-boyfriend with the shotgun.

In addition, this scene is followed by that scene at the fountain. If I remember correctly, Abe2 and Aaron2 are arguing about using the machine to change the past, precisely because we were just told in the previous scene that Abe2 found out about Aaron2 doing this.

re: attacking Platt & then scaring off the kids, I agree; that seems strange, especially because Abe suggests it. But in the end it doesn't matter because they don't actually do it.

Any comments about the night-drugging-multiple-Aarons scene?

The Thinker · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 4

what i got from the multiple drugging seen was this....

Hooded aaron goes back in time to drug aaron 2 and prevent the machine from being built. He suceeds, but then another aaron (aaron 3)appears to stop hooded aaron from drugging aaron 2. Hooded aaron defeats the one who tried to stop him and they talk. Aaron 3 says something like "he wanted it more" and leaves. This is the aaron we see at the end of the movie building the bigger machine in France. Hooded aaron stays with drugged aaron and lives the rest of the days as planned with drugged aaron in the attic. At the end of the movie drugged aaron comes out of the attic, hooded aaron goes to Nevada for march madness and the third aaron is already building the machine in France after having left hooded aaron and drugged aaron alone.

I think this is what happend...tell me if neone sees nething wrong....

The thing that bothers me most a bout the movie is Granger...How did he get in the machine? For what reason?

Ive already seen the movie twice however i am forced to see it again....

Nesto · Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 4

Ok, there are some small details that are up in the air for me (have seen it two times) which I won't bother with.

The only important thing I still can't quite grasp is how does Aaron use the failsafe machine without "bumping into" Abe who also uses the failsafe machine? (Just at a different point in time)

Does he get out of the machine early? Is there something about the "modularization" that also applies to how you can use the physical space inside the machine? Or maybe it's something about the A&B side concept--can Abe get in one side and Aaron get in the other side and just not "see" each other?

Ted · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 12

Go2FU · Joined: 26 Oct 2004 Posts: 2

Nesto · Joined: 20 Oct 2004 Posts: 4

Ted · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 12

happyviewer · Joined: 13 Oct 2004 Posts: 21 Location: Richardson, Texas

holy god my head hurts... Rolling Eyes

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eprparadox · Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 10

eprparadox · Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 10

hey all,
i just saw this movie the first time last night and am going again tomorrow. i fucking love it and i'm glad i visited this forum to see people talking about it in a rigorous way like this. however, i have totally unrelated question i just thought i'd throw out. there is one scene in the movie where for an instant, you see a piece of notebook paper in abe's writing that says at the top "Rules for Avoiding Consequences of Causality" or something to that effect and then a bunch of stuff he's scrawled down there. this image is absolulty hillarious to me and i was wondering if there is any way to get a screen capture of it to blow up to poster size, or if anyone knows how to pass on such a request to shane, as unorthodox as that might be. anyone?

eprparadox · Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 10

i have a question, and feel free to rag on me if this is obvious to everyone else; i've only seen it once yet. whenever one of the aarrons or abes goes back and assumes the life of the first (or more prime, or "primer") version of themselves, they knock their earlier self unconcious. aarron poisons his own milk, but i think we are to believe that he is not dead because of the noises from the attic, where he is bound, or being held captive or whatever. abe uses oxygen to gas himself.
now, the basic use of the machine seems straightforward enough. you set a timer to turn on the machine in fifteen mins., isolate yourself for the duration of your trip. go and enter the machine and then exit it earlier. your memory of your first trip through the day will be of you spending the day in isolation and so will corroborate your ability to avoid causal loops. and you have the added advantage of extra information about how certain things in the day transpire (stocks, bball).
however, if you go back in time and knock yourself unconscious and assume your own life, aren't you obligated to retrieve the prime (first) version of yourself before the moment when you remember entering the machine, and force or coerce or convince yourself to enter it again? because if you do not, you will fall victim to a causal loop and will not have returned to assume your life in the first place. and if you enter the machine again yourself, you will have to go back and repeat the same process of assuming your own identity again ad infinitum.
for example, if aarron enters the failsafe (and i'm still unclear as to at what point he does this) and goes back to poison his milk and assume his life, then when "time" for aarron2 gets to the point when he entered the failsafe again, he only has two options if he doesn't want to vanish from existance (or go comatose or whatever happens). one, he goes into the failsafe again and goes back again and repeats all his actions. or two, he gets the bound and gagged version of himself from the attic, drives him to the failsafe and convinces him to get in the failsafe, go back and knock himself out and repeat as many of the events as aarron2 can remember as closely as possible. it seems to me, someone has to get back in the failsafe. aarron can do it of his own volition, or his prime version can be forced or convinced to do it. is this why (other than the weirdness involved in killing yourself) they choose to subdue themselves through non leathal means? are we to believe that once the doubles reach the moment they oringinally entered the failsafe, that they are freeing their originals and forcing them through?

sinlechuga · Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 8 Location: ny

i can think of two other possibilities for Abe checking the wrong locker before opening the correct one. the action seems significant, and most people seem to think there's another box (either a second abe failsafe or aaron's failsafe). but it could just be a thematic action concurrent with the instances of doubling and confusion throughout the film. that is to say, it's an honest mistake made by abe that also fits nicely in with the themes of the movie. the other possibility is that it was a mistake by the actor playing abe, david sullivan. i mean, didn't they only do like one take of every scene? so it's totally possible he stopped at the wrong locker first and saw shane moving on toward the next one and then realized his mistake.

anyway if i was making the movie and somebody made a mistake like that i'd leave it in, even if i was doing 20 takes of every scene. it's one of those happy acccidents that can make a movie feel more alive.
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nauseaboy · Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 1

We also can't overlook the fact that the machines run once started with out a power supply, and Aaron has a truck.

Couldn't Aaron take a box through, comes out the other side, construct it immediately after he gets out. Then take the original back somehow, still running and have a significant jump on Abe?

Abe would think he'd be wiping the slate clean when he goes back. But there is a period of time then that is still unaccounted for in which Aaron was constructing the replacement box.